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puzzler Kohler k301 just stops

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Re: puzzler Kohler k301 just stops

Postby 38racing » Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:47 pm

bgsengine wrote:Head bolt? Kohler K-series and Magnum head bolts are 3/8-16 thread, they do not have flanges.. instead they have thick, hardened flat washers (not common hardware store washers) , so if it was an original head bolt you dropped, then it'd just be a regular 3/8-16 bolt.

No. Nut. It was at top of a back stud that had the spacer too. No idea why. The spacer was on top of the first nut and washer.
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Re: puzzler Kohler k301 just stops

Postby bgsengine » Fri Oct 01, 2021 5:22 pm

38racing wrote:No. Nut. It was at top of a back stud that had the spacer too. No idea why.
frequently there'd be an engine spec (cub cadet, john deere to name a couple) that would have studs like that, the spacer and second nut & washer was to retain a brace or bracket (such as for a big muffler, or hood mounting bracket, etc, to name a couple things) possibly your engine had a different original muffler than what is on it now... some cub cadets had a bracket strap that fastened to the top of the front grille to prevent breakage of the cast grille frame.
How poor are they who have not patience. What wound did ever heal, but by degrees? - Iago (Othello Act II, Scene 3)
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Re: puzzler Kohler k301 just stops

Postby 38racing » Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:11 pm

so I decided to pull shroud again to make sure nut was not in fin. It wasn't and in hindsight the nut I found on ground was likely it as later I saw that none of the nuts was flanged. Just looked like it as there were washers between spacer and nut.
So back on and I try to start it. no go. Some fire and sometimes out the carb. Puzzled since valves looked fine and leakdown was 20.5. I had replaced plug so maybe a dud out of the box but no difference with old plug. In line tester did show spark. Then laying plugs on head I had spark in new one but not old so went with new one. But alas I decided to remove head again to see if issue with intake valve. All seemed well. I even did a video to put on my youtube channel of the valve piston action.
So I'm sitting in the house thinking about it. It then hit me. I now have it running.Want to guess my stupid mistake? Hint is that to take off shroud I removed the coil and condenser.
Other mistake was not to mic the cylinder when I had the head off twice!
And a last question. Those rear studs. A nut holds the head. Then spacers with washer and nut but no reason as top rear metal cover has holes that they just come through (front metal mounts on top the spacer). Should the spacer and top nut still be there to somehow keep nut on stud at head surface from loosening?
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Re: puzzler Kohler k301 just stops

Postby bgsengine » Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:39 pm

38racing wrote:so I decided to pull shroud again to make sure nut was not in fin. It wasn't and in hindsight the nut I found on ground was likely it as later I saw that none of the nuts was flanged. Just looked like it as there were washers between spacer and nut.
So back on and I try to start it. no go. Some fire and sometimes out the carb. Puzzled since valves looked fine and leakdown was 20.5. I had replaced plug so maybe a dud out of the box but no difference with old plug. In line tester did show spark. Then laying plugs on head I had spark in new one but not old so went with new one. But alas I decided to remove head again to see if issue with intake valve. All seemed well. I even did a video to put on my youtube channel of the valve piston action.
So I'm sitting in the house thinking about it. It then hit me. I now have it running.Want to guess my stupid mistake? Hint is that to take off shroud I removed the coil and condenser.
You wouldn't be the first to hook wires to wrong side of coil and/or neglect to ground the condenser... and even if you been doing it for 30 years, time to time, that will still happen :)
Other mistake was not to mic the cylinder when I had the head off twice!
I rarely did that unless I was looking at oil burner.. and just from experience it became pretty easy to eyeball whether it was maybe close to time to rebuild/rebore/replace. best clue is usually a close look at the cross hatch in the cylinder , and then see if you can see the top ring's end gap (given the end gap wear limit, that's fairly easy to eyeball too)
And a last question. Those rear studs. A nut holds the head. Then spacers with washer and nut but no reason as top rear metal cover has holes that they just come through (front metal mounts on top the spacer). Should the spacer and top nut still be there to somehow keep nut on stud at head surface from loosening?
No, they are not needed - as I said, the spacer,wahser and nut that are there "extra" are there per the OEM spec , often used for accessory mounting, hood braces, (used to mount gas tank brackets on stand-alone engines, for example) and so on... just so happened for your application the accessory was either removed, or OEM never installed it.
How poor are they who have not patience. What wound did ever heal, but by degrees? - Iago (Othello Act II, Scene 3)
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Re: puzzler Kohler k301 just stops

Postby 38racing » Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:35 pm

right on. Since condenser is mounted on the positive side of coil that's where I put the wire.
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Re: puzzler Kohler k301 just stops

Postby 38racing » Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:50 pm

so with the condenser connected correctly it starts and runs fine except for the oil consumption. I topped to full mark with 20w50. I cut my front lawn. maybe 30 minutes. Some muffler smoke but none from the breather side anymore. That was last week. He was picking it up today. I checked oil before starting and it was 1/2 between add and full. unit was sitting pretty level, possibly the dipstick slightly elevated. I started it and then he called to say he was running late so I cut my front lawn again and it ran flawlessly except for some times I'd see some smoke. He's going to monitor and keep adding oil. I'm just surprised that a unit using that much oil doesn't constantly smoke or have a fouled plug. His old plug was not fouled.
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Re: puzzler Kohler k301 just stops

Postby bgsengine » Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:54 am

what sort of dipstick & tube? if it is one of those with the aluminum 3-bolt bottom and thin steel tube that bolts to the side, some of those are notorious for oil creep - I learned to check, wipe throughly, and re-check at LEAST 3 times (and check both sides of the stick for any oil creep from touching oily "corners" the dipstick bends past) , otherwise it is easy to either over-fill, or under-fill those engines (Hint: the cast iron pan with 4 bolt flanges on the outside corners, is a 2-quart pan on the K241-K341 cast irons and magnums, the aluminum "non-eared" base is typically quart and a half, but not always)
How poor are they who have not patience. What wound did ever heal, but by degrees? - Iago (Othello Act II, Scene 3)
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Re: puzzler Kohler k301 just stops

Postby 38racing » Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:39 am

I think it's the smaller size pan because I googled the capacity and put in the higher amount and it was overfull. I then saw the note about smaller pan and sucked out the excess until dipstick read at full.
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Re: puzzler Kohler k301 just stops

Postby bgsengine » Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:11 pm

38racing wrote:I think it's the smaller size pan because I googled the capacity and put in the higher amount and it was overfull. I then saw the note about smaller pan and sucked out the excess until dipstick read at full.

if I was you, I would not depend on the dipstick - there are many sizes that all could fit but differing lengths depending on the spec (and likewise differing length dipstick tubes) and unless you are absolutely sure the dipstick (and tube) are original to that engine, you might have the wrong dipstick (or tube, or a modified tube, or damaged & "repaired" dipstick).
For the most part they are either a 2 quart, or a quart and a half oil pan on a K301 - the cast iron pan will be the one with the mounting ears (so you can bolt it down with through bolts & nuts) , and those are 99.9% all 2-quart capacity (with block off the pan, the fill level is the gasket line) - The other pans (most commonly aluminum, and can only mount to a frame or base using correct size bolts, since there's no way to put on a nut) and are almost always aluminum alloy, and those are typically quart and a half capacity.

If you have a cast iron oil pan, then measure out 2 quarts of oil, and that should be the full level, regardless of what the dipstick says. Actually that is also pretty much the case with any similar oil pan (even on old briggs, wisconsin, Onan horizontal series, etc, and other engines of the same design) - the gasket line is typically the proper oil level (that is, fill pan to the tippy top to the point it overflows)
How poor are they who have not patience. What wound did ever heal, but by degrees? - Iago (Othello Act II, Scene 3)
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