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Pilot Jet Hole Size

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Pilot Jet Hole Size

Postby Merkava_4 » Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:50 pm

Briggs & Stratton
091202
1231-E1
000104YB

Image

Have you guys ever measured the holes on that pilot jet?

The cross through holes are approximately .045'' and the hole on the end (not shown) is approximately .064''.
If I had a #1 -#60 wire gauge drill bit set - I could measure it, but I don't have that drill bit set. I just thought
I would ask just in case somebody knew the stock hole size off the top of their head. The engine likes to run
with a little bit of choke on, so that tells me it's running lean. This is supposed to be the regular sea level jet.

Important Question:
Do you enlarge all three holes, or just the one hole on the end?
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Re: Pilot Jet Hole Size

Postby bgsengine » Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:44 pm

Merkava_4 wrote:
Important Question:
Do you enlarge all three holes, or just the one hole on the end?
It depends on which mixture you wanna control or change.

Helps to understand how it works - much like a miniature carburetor within a carburetor air flow generally passes through the side holes (from the air bleed ports in front of carburetor - usually they themselves have a specific orifice size) and fuel will be coming in through the tip orifice - again note I say *usually* because exact function of the pilot jet may sometimes depend on which carburetor they are fitted to. But as a general rule they feed air and fuel through the idle passages to supply controlled idle mixture ratio to the idle ports in the carb for all idle ranges - change one hole and you change the whole fuel mixture balance (and often the actual "low speed adjustment screw" is only going to control , to a very limited extent, the *amount* of already mixed air-fuel mixture getting to the intake air stream) So.. as a general rule if the machine ran right to begin with, then something has altered that balance, and it is usually found within the carburetor.. and changing the orifice size (one or the other) may not necessarily achieve any results at all - if, for example, a blockage in the fuel feed side of things is simply preventing enough fuel through the fuel metering orifice of the pilot jet, enlarging the hole of the jet to "richen" the mixture ain't gonna do anything since the restriction is happening before the pilot jet .. Likewise - in some carburetors, the little brass air metering orifice for the air bleed might have been removed, or fallen out, etc by someone who does not know any better, causing excess air to reach the pilot jet - and again, changing orifice holes in the pilot jet itself may not necessarily resolve the issue..

So, a good understanding of just how the carburetor circuitry works can help a lot in making the decision to enlarge (or not) any of the fixed jet sizes.. I have yet to actually see a pilot jet that on close inspection was clear, that changing it would resolve a lean fuel mixture issue.. almost always finding the problem to be elsewhere in the carburetor, if not an air leak in the intake/exhaust.. on some engines and carburetors, simply putting a gasket on wrong (or an aftermarket gasket that isn't quite right) can be enough to disrupt the air flow pattern as it gets to the air bleeds resulting in an imbalance... or even just a tiny piece of dirt that makes its way past air filter, through the air bleed , through the pilot jet and partially blocking the idle circuit... or a flake of gum or varnish in the carb working loose (Possibly even as a *RESULT* of ultrasonic cleanign) restricting fuel flow before the pilot jet - either case, changing the pilot jet orifices would do very little to nothing at all..
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Re: Pilot Jet Hole Size

Postby KE4AVB » Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:04 am

You will find that those jet sizes are a lot smaller than you think. I haven't even seen any main jets that size of the number you posted. It would be in the range of a number 163 jet and the largest Nikki main jet I have used here is a 122. I will admit I haven't worked anything larger than 27hp in the small engine line and it has been 20+ years since I last resize the jets on a Holley 4 barrrel on a Mopar 440.

On that particular Briggs carburetor it is a fuel jet and not an air jet. If the fuel tank was badly rusted you may have the carburetor passages for the idle mixture full of rust and other crud. Cleaning this out is hard to do with cleaners even the dip cleaner won't penetrate as well as it should. The running of tag wire is impossible as there is two 90 degree turns in the idle passage way. I have had few that I had to go in manually clean out the passages then ultrasonic finish clean but you need a 3mm steel ball to replace the one that need drilling out. I would do this before trying resize the jet; although, enlarging tip hole of the pilot jet is an option of last resort. I personally have yet needed to resize one of these pilot jets.
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Re: Pilot Jet Hole Size

Postby Merkava_4 » Sat Apr 30, 2016 12:50 am

bgsengine wrote:Helps to understand how it works -


I watched the video. :D
http://www.compgoparts.com/technicalres ... retors.asp

After further evaluation, I don't think I need to enlarge the pilot jet. The engine runs lean at full throttle.
The pilot jet is not used at full throttle (I don't think?) I may I need to look into the main jet.

-bgsengine
-KE4AVB

Thank you guys both very much! I appreciate your help tremendously. Seriously. :)
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Re: Pilot Jet Hole Size

Postby bgsengine » Sat Apr 30, 2016 6:27 am

Not necessarily.... depends on if by "full throttle" you mean loaded or unloaded.

Pilot jet is part of the idle speed circuit and at top no load - "full throttle" with no load .. which is ALSO Technically known as "High Idle" most carburetors will feed fuel through the idle circuit. One way to prove or eliminate the pilot jet - when the engine is running and surging , take a screwdriver and *loosen* the pilot jet just a bit - up to 1 turn out - if the engine runs better, the problem is the pilot jet plugged, or areas before it. If it does not change, you wanna look elsewhere as loosening the pilot jet would be the equivalent of reaming out the jet.
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Re: Pilot Jet Hole Size

Postby Arkie » Sat Apr 30, 2016 6:39 am

You need to think about getting the small set of 61-80 gauge bits (get two sets) as they are dirt cheap on flea bay and get two the itty bitty chuck for holding them. (they have to be treated carefully and keep them in correct size order as even using a mic and dial caliper takes time to find the correct sizes if mixed up) I usually use the itty bitty chuck by hand (not in a power drill) held by a small tap holder or another old small drill chuck.
But: if the carb ever operated normal (as bsengine says) don't try enlarging any jet holes, your lean problem is elsewhere within the carb or elsewhere like a air leak or welch plug not sealed.

I've experimented with the wire gauges bits on the low emission non adjustable carbs idle jets, (mostly on Tecumseh carb engines that were on emergency generators and the surging and hunting engine was causing the voltage and frequency to go up and down ruining connected electrical equipment) with good results, but I make sure I can get a replacement correct size low speed jet before testing if anything goes wrong, like a bit twisted off in the deep jet hole, but I knew the carb and engine was lean as a OEM, which hunting and surging when cold was quite common with the later Tecumseh low emission small engines.

I've seen some carbs that have a adjustable low speed jet and the high speed jet fixed and just a very slight adjustment (like 1/4 turn) of the low speed jet would correct a engine that wanted little bit of choke to smooth out at mid or high rpms. (and the engine would still idle ok with the slight correction to the low speed jet) (proving that the low speed area of the carb is also partly controlling some of the High speed mixture)
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Re: Pilot Jet Hole Size

Postby 38racing » Sat Apr 30, 2016 8:58 pm

I had a surging tec snowblower. Loosening that fixed idle jet smoothed it out.I replaced it with an adjustable needle from an older carb
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Re: Pilot Jet Hole Size

Postby Michael Gilligan » Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:52 am

I have a 8.5hp, that seems to be running lean. I swapped a 197 to a 169, and it ran worse. Playing with the jets on Tecumseh's doesn't seem to work out well. Either get the carb cleaned or replace it. The one I'm fighting with has a non adjustable carb, originally. I'm going to but on a new, older style with adjustable needles, in an attempt to solve the lean condition.
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Re: Pilot Jet Hole Size

Postby Arkie » Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:38 pm

recently had a Walbro non-adjustable carb that was running lean, had to use a part choke to get a high speed run and would not idle. The welch plug that was in the low idle circuit was not sealed good. :o :o
Found this after several cleaning and still same. Just applied a high grade epoxy sealer to the existing plug.
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Re: Pilot Jet Hole Size

Postby bgsengine » Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:52 pm

Arkie wrote:recently had a Walbro non-adjustable carb that was running lean, had to use a part choke to get a high speed run and would not idle. The welch plug that was in the low idle circuit was not sealed good. :o :o
Found this after several cleaning and still same. Just applied a high grade epoxy sealer to the existing plug.

Yeah that is always a good check to make too .. very very easy to overlook..
However I have some suspicions about the earlier post that bumped this old thread.. we'll see... :bricks:
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