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Heads up on belts...

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Re: Heads up on belts...

Postby Arkie » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:42 pm

For measuring and comparing V belts to one another, etc, a cheap easy way out is to get a seamstress cloth tape measure. Some are about 1 inch wide and little easier to use as compared to the 1/2 wide ones and you can take two and add to the length if desired, but not really necessary, just keep on measuring and adding if over 120 inches long. They measure the OD length easily because being very flexible and wide they lay on the V-belt good. (and you can also get the ID easily if desired) I keep my cloth tape hanging up readily available by the V-belts hangers.

They cloth type measuring tape can even be found at Wal-Mart or any hobby shop. ;)

I suspect that UPE Group banned me as a buyer after I pointed out nicely to them of their same part number V belts of different lengths listings needs corrected, is they knew they most likely they could not easily correct their listing info or answer my question in a logical manner, and knowing I would eventually receive a wrong size belt after I had reported their listing discrepancies it was easier for them to block me as a buyer, but again sometimes a guy just runs into a disgruntled employee that does not care about the company they are working for or is headed on down the road anyway.
Public Relations Dept weak. ;)
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Re: Heads up on belts...

Postby KE4AVB » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:00 pm

In my case apparently they have had so many complaints that they don't bother to return the dealer emails. Anyways it is purchasing problem as want to believe the vendor instead the dealers. I got in my gauge today and I measured those four belts 87.5 88, 88.5 and 89. Well one was the size (89) I needed except it was marked as a 90" :lol:. The Stens belts were on the money size wise.

I got my work cut out for myself this weekend as I got a small pickup truck of belt to go through, check their sizes, put on corrected labels, and update my computer inventory. What a headache...but it must be done as I can't trust the belt sizes right now.
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Re: Heads up on belts...

Postby NO0C » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:12 pm

I'm curious, what does this million $ belt gauge look like?
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Re: Heads up on belts...

Postby KE4AVB » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:28 pm

I would not say $125 is a million dollars but if I can I'll take snap shot of it tomorrow but you can google Dayco 93860. Just a couple half v-pulleys plus one extra half pulley that adds 30" plus I think I can add another to get 170" along with a marked scale. It is made by Dayco. It also does rib belts. Any way it is a little pricey but for me it is worth it as it will save me a lot time by not trying to install belts that are wrong sizes or sell them.

If what I suspect has happen is I got a lot belts that are incorrectly labeled and I will need to re-stock quite a few of them. Ouch. If inventory on the computer is correct I got 157 belts to go though.
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Re: Heads up on belts...

Postby NO0C » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:11 pm

Okay, those have been around since Shep was a pup. Years ago, every filling station had one hanging on the wall, either Dayco or Gates. Of course not the serpentine belts. They hadn't been thought of yet.

Thanks!
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Re: Heads up on belts...

Postby KE4AVB » Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:27 pm

Well today got to go through my belt and check them for length. Over a third of the 3/8 - 1/2 either short or too long; mostly short.

18 gal storage containers.

3/8 - 1/2 belts. Ones in the boxes are the good ones.
Image

5/8 belts. The ones closest (bottom of image) are the bad ones. All short by an inch or more. Over half of my stock pile.
Image

Now I know why I was having problems with some of the MTDs especially. Now you why I gave up on Sunbelt for my belts. All of the short ones will have to be replaced. Nearly a $1000 in belts, Ouch....

Edit: And this don't included the 2 storage boxes of Stens belts which all checked good.
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Re: Heads up on belts...

Postby bgsengine » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:16 pm

KE4AVB wrote:Well today got to go through my belt and check them for length. Over a third of the 3/8 - 1/2 either short or too long; mostly short.

18 gal storage containers.

3/8 - 1/2 belts. Ones in the boxes are the good ones.


5/8 belts. The ones closest (bottom of image) are the bad ones. All short by an inch or more. Over half of my stock pile.


Now I know why I was having problems with some of the MTDs especially. Now you why I gave up on Sunbelt for my belts. All of the short ones will have to be replaced. Nearly a $1000 in belts, Ouch....

Edit: And this don't included the 2 storage boxes of Stens belts which all checked good.


Interesting, so you're saying that , for example, a correct OEM belt for part number xxxxxx is 5/8 x 81-3/4 (regardless of what their parts catalogs or price files say!, which are not always right - and yes I mean the OEM ones) a "Bad" belt from the aftermarket , which they claim is OEM spec to the same part number xxxxxx as above, and should be 5/8 x 81-3/4 but is actually measuring out to 5/8 x 80-3/4 ?

I had originally read most of this as being that the "specs" they claim (belt sizes on the sleeve, pricce files, or parts books, etc) were incorrect data , but the belt itself was actually a correct length (EVen OEM's have that problem - many's the MTD and Husqvarna price files that say "78.4" for the belt length but its actually more like 74.8 or maybe 79.5 for correct fitment (typos, ya know?) But if you're saying that a belt which should be 75 inches for correct OEM fitment for the part number it claims to replace but is coming to you being 74-1/4 inches - then yeah that would definitely be a problem... strangely enough I don't believe I ever had gotten belts like that, though from the looks of your stash, I shoulda.. .but then I never did use much Pix belts.. definitely have never seen that yet with Stens or Oregon belts... yet
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Re: Heads up on belts...

Postby KE4AVB » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:31 am

This why I refuse to buy Rotary belts years ago...They simply didn't match up or work as intended. Now of course they might have improved but I am not willing to spend a week getting one in and then having to re-order an OEM belt (another week).

It not typos especially with standard length Kevlar belts as the belts are stamped with these numbers; unless, someone at the factory loaded the wrong info or belts during the imprint process. And they are supposedly OEM spec'd belts.

Here is three examples I pickup out the 5/8 reject box this morning:

B17540370 label as 5/8 x 48 > actual measurement 5/8 x 47.
B1B86K label as 5/8 x 89 > actual measurement 5/8 x 88.
B17540280 label as 5/8 x 53 > actual measurement 5/8 x 51.75.

You drop the B1 to get the belt number.

Now I do have a few that are in the other direction by 1/2" to 1" over which explain the belt slippage I had on the Huskee mower with pedal drive not wanting to climb hills. That belt was labelled as B17540467 - 5/8 x 90.5 and I measured the in house belt it was 5/8 x 91. I know an 1/2 inch don't sound like much but on a MTD variable drive it is a lot especially with any belt stretch under loading. It also explains why when I put on a supposedly longer 42" in place of a 41.5" belt the transmission don't whine as much from belt overloading the bearings as those 41.5 belts were 39.75. I also know that the OEM belts are not true 5/8 belts as they might be +-5/8 belts with different height profile but I think the effective length should be the same.

Last year I was getting from the supplier 3/8 x 34.2 belts that were actually 3/8 x 33.75 and I couldn't even them over the pulleys on the HU675HWT mower. The closest belt I could lay my hands on was a 3/8 x 34 Kevlar and it took considerable mods to get them to work so the head would not spin at full speed when disengaged. After a couple hours of use the head would operate as intended but still the belt should have been right if they are claimed to be OEM spec'd. I actual modified three of these mowers for the customer. They also the same mowers that Husqvarna was sending out spindle shafts with undersized journals which I had to have knurled to fit the metric bearings they were sending out.

I think the problem here is that the belts are made in India by supplier as for the USA made belts that I have check matches up to the published and labeled specs.

But I have learned to actually measure my belts as I get them in and compare them to known good specs. Just can't trust the vendors any more to have sent the correct belts out. Plus I am not a happy camper right now about this but I will correct the stock with the correct belts; just going to take me a week or two to update my files and get a PO done for replacement belts.

Forgive me for being frustrated about this problem but it is hitting my bottom line fairly hard this time around but I will take them off my year end taxes as damaged inventory adjustment. It is also going to affect my turn around time in the near future until I get it straighten out. It is partially my fault too as I should have been measuring the belts all along and not trusting the vendor were doing their job but like many of us smaller shops I didn't have the measuring gauge and depended on the supplier to have done their homework.
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Re: Heads up on belts...

Postby bgsengine » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:10 am

KE4AVB wrote:
B17540370 label as 5/8 x 48 > actual measurement 5/8 x 47.
And MTD Price file for that number lists it as: BELT .715 X 48.5''

B1B86K label as 5/8 x 89 > actual measurement 5/8 x 88.
Yep - should 89" roughly on the O.D. and 86 on the I.D. for a B-section

Forgive me for being frustrated about this problem but it is hitting my bottom line fairly hard this time around but I will take them off my year end taxes as damaged inventory adjustment. It is also going to affect my turn around time in the near future until I get it straighten out. It is partially my fault too as I should have been measuring the belts all along and not trusting the vendor were doing their job but like many of us smaller shops I didn't have the measuring gauge and depended on the supplier to have done their homework.

More than understandable - regardless of typos those belts definitely don't meet specs, so very understandable at your frustration. I guess have been lucky - I have only ever used perhaps a dozen PIX belts , all my belts have been OEM, or Oregon Outdoor, and some Gates belts - very little of anything else,and have yet to really see a belt that didn't meet expected specifications.
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Re: Heads up on belts...

Postby Arkie » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:55 am

AND every once in awhile I need a set of matched length belts for old air compressors or dual belts on old AC automotive systems and in past paid little bit extra to get a matched set (twins of equal length, both in same box)Most of the time the matched sets were made by GATES.

Cannot easily find matched set of belts now days and usually when buying two of same part number one will be running tight and carrying the load at first and eventually have to re-tension to get the second belt helping and at times the tight belt has to slip or burn in, not run in and stretch to match the second one. Not really a matched set as made, but have same part number.

I've started measuring belts also before installing if they need to be precise so as to get idea of what to expect before wasting time installing.

At price of belts now days sure can waste lots of time and money fooling around with belts.

We need to report this to Donald. Russia might be involved. ;)
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