• Advertisement

possible burnt zero turn resurrection

Use this forum to discuss small engines, and the equipment or machinery that they power. This is the main section for any technical help posts and related questions.

Re: possible burnt zero turn resurrection

Postby 38racing » Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:16 pm

I have a similar carb off a 13 hp tec. Thought I would use bottom from it. Of course the o ring in front of main jet needs replaced. So rather than heading into the house for a new o ring I figured I would pull the new one that I had put in the problem carb. Be darned if I can pick it out. I'm getting pretty sure there isn't one to pull. I was sure I replaced it. I followed Taryl's technique but maybe it went into bowl and then fell out somwhere. Going to get a better flash light to confirm that it's missing. That might explain the performance issue. Funny thing I may have mentioned was that these carbs had the o ring in the wrong spot. Po had them on outside between spring and ABF. These carbs aren't exactly from my donor engine. They are from an engine used to replace my donor engine.
38racing
Forum Pro
 
Posts: 2287
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:12 pm
Location: Ontario Canada

Re: possible burnt zero turn resurrection

Postby 38racing » Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:57 am

Definitely no o ring in the bottom that I was using. Turns out I can't use the bottom from the 13 hp as it has horizontal fuel inlet that won't fit with air cleaner cover setup. I'm not real happy with the condition of the plastic that the o ring fits against on the original bottom but will give it a try.
38racing
Forum Pro
 
Posts: 2287
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:12 pm
Location: Ontario Canada

Re: possible burnt zero turn resurrection

Postby 38racing » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:10 pm

getting a bit frustrated but still have a plan. I put the o ring in the current bottom. No change. No fire on that carb side , currently left side. runs on right side cylinder. Then I realized I could try the bottom from the 13 hp single carb as I was testing with air cleaner off so I could hook the fuel line to it. No change. Then I decided to use the whole carb, top and bottom, from the 13 hp except that I had to use throttle shaft assembly from the existing carb top. Interesting was how not tight the throttle plate screws were on it. This 13 hp carb top has not seen the USC yet. No change. So now my plan is to move this carb from left side to right side and see if the right cylinder becomes the non firing cylinder as it was before the first swap. If that's the case I will run this carb through the USC. Then if no change I'm stumped. If both cylinders will fire with the one carb on that cylinder side and not fire with the other carb on its side then I can't see how it can be anything except that carb. Unfortunately right now I don't have any other engines with a series 7 carb on them to try.
38racing
Forum Pro
 
Posts: 2287
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:12 pm
Location: Ontario Canada

Re: possible burnt zero turn resurrection

Postby 38racing » Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:48 pm

so I switched them and again now as expected the right doesn't fire. Looking into left carb I see the fuel coming up out of nozzle. On right one there is none. If I force the throttle a bit further open then I do see some fuel come out but the exhaust temp doesn't go up. Right now I have the right carb in the USC. I am going to replace the nozzle even though ones from both bowl units I've tried look fine. This time I will also use a new gasket between the upper and lower halves. All fuel and air passages seemed to fine so maybe it's a seal problem.
Found a forum where a puller had same thing exactly and got fed up. He said that he built a new intake pipe to use a single carb.
38racing
Forum Pro
 
Posts: 2287
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:12 pm
Location: Ontario Canada

Re: possible burnt zero turn resurrection

Postby 38racing » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:06 pm

So the cold weather stopped my progress along with some more surgery on my plumbing system. So I put the new carb bowl assembly on the right carb and now she's running on both cylinders. bowl assembly ($30 USD) actually came with the anti backfire solenoid. Separately it likely costs more than 30. Since I didn't want power to solenoids to be an issue I replaced it with the bolt from another assembly. In the process of setting the valves as one exhaust is a bit high. ran pretty steady at 3150. Found one document on a tec vtwin tvy691 that showed 3350 at the spec rpm so I will adjust that too. Funny the little things that pop up. I noticed oil dripping near filter. Pulled it and mounting surface was clean and gasket fine. I decided to the filter mount bolts. Both a bit loose. I don't recall if I had touched them. Tightened them up and it seems to have fixed the leak.
38racing
Forum Pro
 
Posts: 2287
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:12 pm
Location: Ontario Canada

Re: possible burnt zero turn resurrection

Postby 38racing » Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:03 pm

Now I'm not sure what I've done wrong. I had to cut the drive pulley off to work on engine. I have an OEM replacement but I just installed it and the clutch and things went south. One collar on the drive pulley is thinned with a rounded edge and no part of the key where the other is thicker walled with square end and has the key. I assumed that the round edge collar should go against the engine crankshaft. This engine has the shorter 3 plus crankshaft. When pulley is on there's only about an inch of crankshaft for the electric clutch. Internal to the clutch 1 " bore is a ridge that theoretically could hit end of shaft but can't since it's down 1.6 " from clutch top face. Clutch has big washer on bolt (no D spacer). So when torquing bolt the clutch never gets stopped by crankshaft , just by the drive pulley. Extreme torque indicates 50-55 ft lbs torque and I recently did this on another MTD unit after clutch actually came loose. So today before I could reach the torque spec I heard noises and though it was the drive pulley slipping in the vise grips. But , alas no, it was the thinner collar that I had against engine splitting. Anyone know if I had it upside down? I just watched a video replacing a sears and donyboy73 said key in pulley should be up and I had it down. Not sure if I can see above clutch on my other MTD and see what side is down on its pulley.
38racing
Forum Pro
 
Posts: 2287
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:12 pm
Location: Ontario Canada

Re: possible burnt zero turn resurrection

Postby bgsengine » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:00 pm

you sure you got the right pulley? They are not all the same, despite parts list sometimes you have to go back or forward a model year or two to find the right one - had one that parts catalog showed as the only pulley available.. then I noticed the PTO on that machine showed a manual PTO while the one I was working on electric clutch - I skipped ahead a model year and found electric clutch PTO, and it had a different engine pulley listed which ended up being the one I needed. There can also be variations in the pulley depending on which engine is installed, so be sure the engine as listed in the parts book you are using is actually a Tecumseh, and not Briggs, Kohler or Kawasaki. (or powermore)
How poor are they who have not patience. What wound did ever heal, but by degrees? - Iago (Othello Act II, Scene 3)
bgsengine
Briggs MST
Briggs MST
 
Posts: 3296
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:07 pm
Location: Northcentral P.A.

Re: possible burnt zero turn resurrection

Postby 38racing » Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:10 pm

The IPL shows exactly the setup including tecumseh engine. Replacement pulley is OEM and it's the same as what I cut off. I just found it in the scrap pail. The one end of collar is thinner because collar is stepped and pulley sits on step and is only welded to the thicker part of collar. I found a warner installation guide that has same torque spec of 50-55and interestingly it says "Ground drive pulley or spacer must be chamfered to clear this radius on the crankshaft shoulder" and "Always bottom the clutch against a flat surface; never against a radius" . So it seems I had the drive pulley right side up, but clearly based on where I cut the old pulley it had the chamfered side down against the clutch. Somebody could have put it on wrong although the belt can be changed without removing it. Warner guide also shows a minimum of 1" of shaft for the clutch (which I have). Although not specificly mentioned it shows a slight gap between end of shaft and sleeve. The part number on the ipl for the clutch is 717-04183 and my supplier shows it crossing to GT1A-MT09 which is the number on my clutch (Ogura I think).
Now while I was out digging for the old pulley I did a quick test of the torque wrench but only with a 3/8 nut and bolt. I can click up to 40 ft lbs but I strip it at 45 so maybe I need to confirm my torque wrench.
I'm also going to look for some Ogura technical info. And found same thing about chamfer against engine.
38racing
Forum Pro
 
Posts: 2287
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:12 pm
Location: Ontario Canada

Re: possible burnt zero turn resurrection

Postby KE4AVB » Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:20 am

Of course you stripped the 3/8" even it was a Grade 8 fine thread as has a max torque of 49 ft-lbs, only the ASTM A574 grade can go to 57.6 ft-lbs. Grade 5 fine thread is only 35 ft-lbs.

Extreme Clutch installation sheet has the following on bolt torque
  • 3/8-24 Grade 8 40-45 ft-lbs
  • 7/16-20 Grade 5 (No Imports) 50-55 ft-lbs. [Personally I would use a Grade 8]
  • M10-1.5 Class 10.9 40-48 ft-lbs

As for the torque wrench they do go out calibration. I had one that started causing problem during an annual calibration test. It would not click until weight twice the setting was applied. Then I it out and got a new toque wrench. This was the time I was getting my left hand torque wrenches so I go a deal on the set of 6 torque wrenches as replaced the right hand ones too. All I am missing now is the 3/4" drive left hand one but rarely need that one and I just convert the current toque wrench on a as needed base though I might need the 600 ft-lb one as I am pushing the 300 ft-lb limit on right hand torques.

As for the MTD PN 717-04183 it has been superseded to 917-04622.
The truest measure of society is the how it treats its elderly, its pets, and its prisoners.
User avatar
KE4AVB
Forum Pro
 
Posts: 5999
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:23 am
Location: TorLand

Re: possible burnt zero turn resurrection

Postby 38racing » Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:37 pm

Just opened a thread in the tool crib on the digital torque adapter. Also Napa has a cheap 1/2 click unit wrench on this month so might buy it just because of the low price. $45 CDN.
As an interim step I came up with the idea of using a spacer at the top and I have the same pulley from another mower that had the thin collar damaged and I removed it. The spacer I've made from the thick collar part from the pulley I cut off the engine. (Lucky they had it on upside down). In making the spacer the positioning of pulley became obvious. The thicker flat face collar has the key and it's right to the face of the collar. (thin side has no key). So it has to be thin side against crankshaft as the keyway in the shaft does not extent to top, so putting thick side and key up means pulley can't go all the way up. I ground a chamber so the spacer fits up against crank taper. Going to set clutch air gap before I try the install again. Got to be careful because there is a thin layer of water on my ice covered floor.
38racing
Forum Pro
 
Posts: 2287
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:12 pm
Location: Ontario Canada

PreviousNext

Return to Technical Discussion Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron