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Craftsman Tractor Won't Start.

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Re: Craftsman Tractor Won't Start.

Postby lefty » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:22 pm

I know what you're saying. But I swear they are metal. I ended up going to my local shop and they had it in stock so I picked it up. I was trying to avoid it because they charged $30 for it. But I need it and wanted to make sure I got the right one.

I checked both the needles on the 1st one with a magnifying glass and a magnet. They are definitely both metal. I tapped them on the bottom of a metal dog bowl I use in the shop and they definitely made a "tink tink" sound. I have the right one now and it's clearly rubber tipped. Plus, the correct needle isn't magnetic. Aluminum maybe? I don't know why I had the wrong one originally. Part numbers match up with what you posted.

Thank you. I'm going to try to see if I can't get this thing running today.
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Re: Craftsman Tractor Won't Start.

Postby lefty » Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:52 pm

Fuel is getting to the carb. I tried putting fuel down the throat but all I get is the same thing. It turns over several rotations and then pops (backfires?) through the carb and spits it out. Never fires off. What is the proper piston position for a leak down on this? I did TDC and then a little past with poor results. But when I went about 1/2 inch past TDC it got a lot stronger. From my experience, which is only on briggs, that's way to far past TDC. Could this be a timing issue? Should I take the valve cover off and take a look? Are these adjustable valves?
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Re: Craftsman Tractor Won't Start.

Postby KE4AVB » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:07 pm

First it has hydraulic lifters so there is no adjustment for the valves as they are self adjusting.

Leak down is at TDC Compression but it is possible to test the whole stroke if you disable the valve train.

What strange is the less leakage @ 1/2" past TDC. Sounds like a valve timing problem but it would require a crank gear key shear to throw the timing off; unless, someone been inside the engine. Plus the ipl doesn't show a gear key and I haven't worked on enough Kohlers to know if they even have a key. Now it might be possible to have a bad lifter that is over doing the ACR bump.

Maybe someone with more experience with Kohler engines will chime in.
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Re: Craftsman Tractor Won't Start.

Postby bgsengine » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:15 pm

KE4AVB wrote:First it has hydraulic lifters so there is no adjustment for the valves as they are self adjusting.

Leak down is at TDC Compression but it is possible to test the whole stroke if you disable the valve train.


Maybe someone with more experience with Kohler engines will chime in.


Well if I was sure of piston position (measuring through plug hole, not guesswork based on flywheel position due to possible sheared flywheel key) and had those leakdown results, I'd be pulling head (or using a boroscope) to inspect cylinder bore for possible upper cylinder damage that gets sealed once the piston is down far enough to reach undamaged area... which would make me wonder if maybe something didnt go through carb (like a throttle plate screw) and get sucked into the engine...
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Re: Craftsman Tractor Won't Start.

Postby KE4AVB » Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:53 am

I was thinking the same thing about upper cylinder damage. And I do need to get myself one of those inspection cameras. Without one the only other option is to pull the head for a look see.

With the engines I have been seeing lately without air filters it could have even ingested something external to the engine.
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Re: Craftsman Tractor Won't Start.

Postby 38racing » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:59 am

I bought a cheap scope. Now if I could just find it.
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Re: Craftsman Tractor Won't Start.

Postby lefty » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:42 am

TDC was taken through the plug hole, I used my finger to detect the pressure to find the compressions stroke and was able to see the piston and find TDC using my trusty flashlight. (I hope that's right)

Could this be something with valve seats? I've read some stuff about how these engines are notorious for them slipping. But the more I think about it, that would probably cause the opposite problem? If the intake seat came up a bit it would probably cause the value to seat prematurely rather than late?

I think I have a friend that has one of those scopes. I'll pull the carb again too and look for missing hardware.
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Re: Craftsman Tractor Won't Start.

Postby lefty » Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:44 pm

bgsengine wrote:
KE4AVB wrote:First it has hydraulic lifters so there is no adjustment for the valves as they are self adjusting.

Leak down is at TDC Compression but it is possible to test the whole stroke if you disable the valve train.

Maybe someone with more experience with Kohler engines will chime in.


Well if I was sure of piston position (measuring through plug hole, not guesswork based on flywheel position due to possible sheared flywheel key) and had those leakdown results, I'd be pulling head (or using a boroscope) to inspect cylinder bore for possible upper cylinder damage that gets sealed once the piston is down far enough to reach undamaged area... which would make me wonder if maybe something didnt go through carb (like a throttle plate screw) and get sucked into the engine...


I think that's it. So here's the latest. I pulled the valve / rocker cover. Not sure what I was looking for but as a newbie, but I'm a lot more comfortable doing a leak down when I can see the valves. I also pulled out the dipstick which I don't think I did initially. (I know...rookie)

So at TDC, I was putting about 50lb in and it was holding about 28. From my experience, that's a problem. And sure enough, it was blowing pretty good out of the crank / oil tube . No other sounds from anywhere else, or if there were, I couldn't hear it over all noise coming out of the oil tube. This flywheel has a really nice hole bored out of the side, probably for balancing but it with a socket extension, it gave me a really nice anchor to manipulate the piston a little bit to check it at different points.

At TDC with all sorts of hissing coming out of the oil tube, I dropped the piston about a 1/2 inch and the pressure in the cylinder went way up. So it sounds like the top end of the cylinder is the problem.

A couple of notes: The clearance seemed very tight on the exhaust valve. Not knowing much about the hydraulic system, I'm guessing that's normal.
Secondly, and I was puzzled by this: At about 50lb in and 28ish in the cylinder, I decided to push it up to about 60 and the pressure in the cylinder jumped way up, comparatively speaking. To about 50. Almost like the more pressure I put in, the more it held as a ratio. like something was plugging it up. This is the opposite of what I'm used to, with a good engine anyway. Usually, the differential gets larger the higher the pressure goes. So that got me thinking that maybe my gauge was screwed up.

One last point: Since I was using a lever to hold the flywheel, I'm able to feel the pressure. Usually, I have to hold on pretty tight. But the flywheel held on its own, even at the higher pressure. I read that as so much was getting past that it wouldn't even push the piston down. But if I brought the piston down about 1/2 inch past TDC, I had to hold on pretty tight to keep it from flying away on me.

I hope this is useful info and not just a bunch of jibberish.
Thanks
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Re: Craftsman Tractor Won't Start.

Postby bgsengine » Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:24 pm

Yeah, can call it a learning experience, but without a borescope, personally,I would have pulled the head by now - at best you'd only need a couple gaskets, and able to inspect cylinder visually (and valves and seats) in less time than it took to try all the above ..:) Likely could use a carbon cleaning anyway (which is what it'd get billed as under "maintenace" if nothing else was found) and at least KNOW it is or is not a bore or ring problem... and by the time you replace gasket after checking for warpage you also eliminate blown head gasket as an issue.. only other thing would be to check valve timing (at TDC on exhaust stroke you should see both valves slightly open, and both closed during intake and power strokes,it probably isn't a valve timing thing)
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Re: Craftsman Tractor Won't Start.

Postby lefty » Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:06 pm

I hear ya. I'll probably pull the head then. Just curious though. During the leak down, when I go from about 50 to 60 lbs in pressure going in, I hear kind of a soft empty thud sound and the pressure in the cylinder jumps to almost the same as the pressure going in. Is that normal?
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