Personal Pace Electric Issue

[lefty]

Toro Model: 20041
Serial: 250089749

Engine: 125K05-0186-E1 05042756

I was given this machine by a customer. Turned out to be a pretty good score. I threw a carb on it I had around and it runs great. It has electric start with an on-board battery. The battery is showing 12.10 V.

Should this be at least trying to turn over with 12.10 v? Because when I turn the key, I get nothing, no clicking, no nothing.
And can I charge this battery with the same charger I use to charge my tractor batteries? And can I test this starter with one of my tractor batteries or would that fry it? My guess would be I can.

Also, I'm having a hard time finding a wiring diagram so if anyone can point me in the right direction for that, I could employ my extremely limited skills to try and troubleshoot.

Thanks

[Skywatcher]

Hi Lefty

If you battery charger has a 12v trickle charge setting, yes you can. The starter motor can also be bench tested using any 12 volt battery, the motor is only going to spin so fast on 12 volts. The amps a motor draws is determined by the internal resistance of the motor. It's when you feed an electric motor more volts than it was designed for that you start doing damage. As for the electric starter circuit, start with the simple things first. There is a 40 amp fuse in the system, I believe it to be between the battery and the key. There is also an interrupter switch in the operator presence system, either on the handle bar or down where the control cable attaches to the engine.

A simple 12 volt test light works well to trouble shoot a basic system like this. Clip the ground wire to the negative terminal of the battery and touch the positive terminal with the probe to check your test light. Now touch both sides of the fuse, light should light up. If light only lights up on one side of fuse, you have a blown fuse. If fuse OK, touch both sides of the key connector, should have one side live and one side dead. Hold test light to dead side of key and turn key, light should light up. Tie the operator presence handle down, hold test light to terminal on starter motor. If light does not light up, there is an open circuit somewhere between the key switch and the starter motor. Check and clean all connections and check the interrupter switch for continuity.

If test light does come on but motor doesn't even try to spin, you either have an open circuit in the motor itself (which would have shown up in the bench test) or a bad ground between the motor and the battery. Run a jumper cable from the motor housing to the battery negative and the motor should spin if it checked out on the bench test. Our electrical instructor in heavy duty mechanic's school gave us a simple rule to follow. If an electrical system doesn't work, the problem is going to be in one of 3 places. One: between the positive terminal and the appliance, two: between the appliance and the negative terminal, or three: in the appliance itself. Hope this helps point you in the right direction,

Sky

[Skywatcher]

Hi Again

Just found the interrupter or interlock switch in the starter circuit. Go to partstree.com, enter you model number 20041 (only one choice comes up). Click on Governor Assembly and it's key # 935 (part # 499421). Looks like the interlock is bolted right onto the engine flywheel brake assembly. All the best,

Sky

[lefty]

Thank you for that.

Fuse and switch test good. But on the starter, it has a plug. On the starter, the light lights up when I touch the mount of the starter while turning the key. The starter has a connector on it. Not sure if I did that right but I couldn't get the starter to spin no matter what I touched.

I'm about to bench test it and my guess is I'm going to connect the red from the battery to the red side of the plug and then black to black. Here's a photo of the starter.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/SUGSWNVT7tQoomD56

[lefty]

The starter just tested good when connected directly to the battery.

For what it's worth, there is no continuity between the black batter wire and the black wire that goes to the starter. In my head, I think there should be. Maybe that's where my problem is? Or is that as expected?

[lefty]

Actually...

I think you may be right with that component you were talking about.

Is it possible that the lever on the handlebar will pull enough to disengage the kill for the coil but not enough to disengage the kill on the starter? The cable for this mechanism is stretched out pretty good and does not really pull that flywheel brake too far from the flywheel. I can actuate it much further with my hand This may be as simple as a faulty cable?

[lefty]

Yes...that was it. I went ahead and actuated that mechanism fully and the starter cranked up. Sorry for the schizophrenic type posting. As you might have guessed, I'm running back and forth from the machine to my computer.

Thank you for that procedure.

[Skywatcher]

Hi Once Again

Congrats on diagnosing and pin pointing the problem. Here's part of what I had typed up before checking to see if you had added another post,

As for the engine control cable, yes these do definitely wear out, rust, seize and generally deform with time, moisture and lack of lubrication. Usually what happens is not so much the steel wire stretches, but the plastic conduit compresses changing the geometry of the cable. If the interlock switch is on the ground side of the starter motor circuit, a new control cable may be all it takes to fix this unit.

Just took a look at the IPL and the part you need is Toro P/N 104-8676. These cables are famous for rusting and seizing up, the plastic connector linkage at the top end works like a funnel and funnels rain water straight into the cable where it sits and rusts the cable at its lowest point. Install a new cable, keep the machine out of the weather and put a few drops of oil into the top end of the cable every fall before putting the machine away for the winter. All the best,

Sky

[lefty]

It almost makes me feel silly. I should have noticed that from the beginning. But I learned a lot and appreciate the diagnostic protocol you gave me. Without that, I would have been here forever trying to figure it out.

[lefty]

I got my new brake cable today but it doesn't seem to fit. The cable is the same length but the sheathing is longer, effectively shortening the action.

So my original cable is too long, stretched out or something, and the new too short. Am I missing something? Should I be looking to make adjustments to the brake assembly? Like bending some anchor points?

Thanks