Here's you a good one to figure out.

[KE4AVB]

2014 Huskee 13W7225S031 with 4P90JU engine. Note: I have already resolved the problem. I just see if anyone have seen this or had inking of what was the problem. BTW it is less than $5 in parts to fix.

Electrical Problem. Test equipment used: DVMM

Mower was non starter.

Solenoid receiving battery voltage from the ignition switch but not engaging. Try new solenoid still no go.

When at the ignition switch testing . Jumped B to S on the connector with it unplugged from the ignition switch . Solenoid clicks. Still no starter action. Test switch and it is okay.

Notice that if I disconnected the fuel solenoid from the wiring harness connector the ignition switch would get solenoid to click.

One observation while test at the ignition switch with harness connected was that the S terminal had a 11v reading when not not in the start position. Strange.

Note: All the readings on the DVMM are the same as battery static voltage. Didn't matter if I tested at the battery post or frame ground at the engine. This one just proves that even with a meter you can't find the problem without engaging your brain.

[bgsengine]

Corroded battery terminal or bad ground - what you were seeing with 11v at the S terminal key on was voltage drop

[KE4AVB]

Then how you explain the 11v on the S that normally has no voltage in the run position when the other side of the solenoid circuit is grounded and must get battery plus voltage through the B+ terminal in order to have voltage on it? Are you saying somehow I was getting battery positive voltage from ground through starter solenoid to ground again? I wouldn't think that was possible; unless, somehow the solenoid was generating it own electrical power which I doubt as most solenoid and relays have anti parasitic oscillation diode installed. Even if it was oscillation voltage it would be AC and not a DC voltage.

That the one that was throwing me off. I would haven't thought of a voltage of any kind from frame ground to frame ground. I was also getting the full battery voltage in start position. I know I if had a bad frame to battery negative terminal (ground) contact I would get a voltage indication but not from the same ground point as the starter solenoid or the negative battery terminal Z(the post itself and not the cable end); if didn't matter which point I tested from as I got the same readings.

You did get the solution though as I replaced both battery cable ends.

[bgsengine]

By applying the tester (test meter) you are completing enough of a ground path for the voltage to reach ground by way of the reverse feed - you have voltage going to the carb solenoid to ground and traveling through ground back to the S terminal by way of the grounded solenoid relay energize circuit - It was enough to register a *voltage* across a DVOM but would not have been enough *amps* to make a test light glow. By removing the carb solenoid from the circuit you removed that draw of amps that prevented the solenoid energize circuit from engaging.. this the click only when carb solenoid was unhooked.

If your solenoid had been a 4-pole grounded through safety switches you would have seen that 11v at S terminal only when all safeties were sufficiently engaged.

But all I needed was to see that there was *any* voltage reading where there should not be one, and it's got to be a voltage drop issue, or a short circuit.. since it was not blowing fuses, it was fairly easy to assume it would be a voltage drop.

It's one reason why a test light is also handy to use - Your DMM can read voltages where a test light will not, due to the amps involved in powering a bulb vs registering a reading on a DVOM

[KE4AVB]

Well as I always said you're never too old to learn something new. Even with my 40 yrs of electronics experience this the first time I have ran into readings like this. Opps telling off about my age again . I have had some petty unique problems over the years.

I would not have thought that the frame ground which the solenoid grounded would to not have allowed a voltage feedback when testing to frame ground. As I said if there was a difference between the battery B- and frame grounded connection it would have stood out but somehow on this one there was no difference just that fathom voltage when I was testing at the ignition switch. I would have never seen it if I was just testing the disconnected connector instead of back probing the connector while it was attached to the switch.

Just proves anything is possible just like me using my refrig as an antenna with the transmatch but only get about 50 miles per gallon of milk . I just add this to list of things to look out for. .

Your explanation of this is as good as any I have heard. It also proves that not all us have the same run ins with crazy problems. I had one several years ago on a Cub that the B+ line to ignition switch to drop out everytime you tried starting the engine. That one turn to be a bad crimped connector at the starter relay that fed the B+ from the battery to the ignition switch. Just looking it you would never thought it was the culprit. It took some back probing the wire to find it. That mower had already been three shops before I got it in for the same problem.

When I seen the battery terminals so hack installed and I had just got in 25 of the 8 ga version in I went ahead and replaced them as I already planning to do so. One terminal had an auto battery cable terminal (a 2 ga or larger, too beat up to tell) installed, way too large for that 8 ga cable and the other was mounted with bulge head screw. The screw was pockmarked with arcing marks and that was the B+ terminal so I would have thought it would been dropping out and not that new beat up connector on the B- lead.

I had about 25 yrs ago an electrician to wire an office cubical incorrectly. It fried the Panasonic typewriter but the IBM Selectric's motor was running although the there was a clicking noise from the over-speeding motor clutch and then was the copier that wasn't even working. He had 220 at one plug and other was 110 on both hot and neutral but the safety ground was still ground at the neutral at the service box. This was at a NASA office.

[Arkie]

By applying the tester (test meter) you are completing enough of a ground path for the voltage to reach ground by way of the reverse feed - you have voltage going to the carb solenoid to ground and traveling through ground back to the S terminal by way of the grounded solenoid relay energize circuit - It was enough to register a *voltage* across a DVOM but would not have been enough *amps* to make a test light glow. By removing the carb solenoid from the circuit you removed that draw of amps that prevented the solenoid energize circuit from engaging.. this the click only when carb solenoid was unhooked.

If your solenoid had been a 4-pole grounded through safety switches you would have seen that 11v at S terminal only when all safeties were sufficiently engaged.

But all I needed was to see that there was *any* voltage reading where there should not be one, and it's got to be a voltage drop issue, or a short circuit.. since it was not blowing fuses, it was fairly easy to assume it would be a voltage drop.

It's one reason why a test light is also handy to use - Your DMM can read voltages where a test light will not, due to the amps involved in powering a bulb vs registering a reading on a DVOM

Right about DMM circuit loading and I also use a Simpson 160 quite often instead of a DMM. DMM are great but when I start seeing weird reading on a DVOM (even a Fluke) I reach for the Analog vom. Stray induced voltages can also upset a DMM whereas a analog VOM will load the circuit under test enough to not upset your brain.

I had been telling a young Journeyman electrician about DMM's can sometimes take reading that are misleading and he should also get himself a Simpson 260 or 160 and when he see's weird reading to confirm/test with the analog tester.
He called me in to help him troubleshoot a control circuit electrical issue and when I seen his Fluke DMM readings I got out the little Simpson 160 and took readings and he immediately seen what I had been trying to tell him and few days later he told me he bought himself a Simpson 160. I told him that he needed to keep me in mind because I can also repair and calibrate the 160 when he burns out the ohms resistors reading voltage. He smiled. Few months later he was not smiling when he handed me his 160 for repairing. Trying to read volts on a ohms or milliamps scale is not a good thing for electrical testers, but the Simpsons 260's and 160's can usually be repaired reasonable if the meter movement survived.

DMM's are great (and I have several) but I take their reading with a grain of salt and reach for the old style VOM when I see brain teaser type readings on the DMM's.

[Fulltilt]

2014 Huskee 13W7225S031 with 4P90JU engine. Note: I have already resolved the problem. I just see if anyone have seen this or had inking of what was the problem. BTW it is less than $5 in parts to fix.

Electrical Problem. Test equipment used: DVMM

Mower was non starter.

Solenoid receiving battery voltage from the ignition switch but not engaging. Try new solenoid still no go.

When at the ignition switch testing . Jumped B to S on the connector with it unplugged from the ignition switch . Solenoid clicks. Still no starter action. Test switch and it is okay.

Notice that if I disconnected the fuel solenoid from the wiring harness connector the ignition switch would get solenoid to click.

One observation while test at the ignition switch with harness connected was that the S terminal had a 11v reading when not not in the start position. Strange.

Note: All the readings on the DVMM are the same as battery static voltage. Didn't matter if I tested at the battery post or frame ground at the engine. This one just proves that even with a meter you can't find the problem without engaging your brain.

Well, since bg beat me to it...
I mean, come on, major clue that you have a ground and or battery/ cable issue.

All the other testing/whatever would seem to be a waste of time.
Then we find out about the ugly bat cable lugs! Big clue, right?

I'm not big on voltage drop testing, but seems as though...

As others have mentioned, a 12v test light is an invaluable tool. It's my first choice whenever faced with electrical problems, as most problems can be quickly and easily identified using it.
In fact, I'll be putting it to use here later today, trying to figure out why an outside stored older Turf Tiger keeps blowing fuses.

I keep a supply of cable lugs and new ss bolts and washers on hand for just such cases. As well as cable. All easily sourced on fleabay.

I use the heck out of this thing : https://www.waytekwire.com/item/462/CRIMPER-HAMMER-TOOL-8GA-4-0/?gclid=COOmp7mliNMCFQqFfgodkmUIQA Quick and easy to use!

[Arkie]

2014 Huskee 13W7225S031 with 4P90JU engine. Note: I have already resolved the problem. I just see if anyone have seen this or had inking of what was the problem. BTW it is less than $5 in parts to fix.

Electrical Problem. Test equipment used: DVMM

Mower was non starter.

Solenoid receiving battery voltage from the ignition switch but not engaging. Try new solenoid still no go.

When at the ignition switch testing . Jumped B to S on the connector with it unplugged from the ignition switch . Solenoid clicks. Still no starter action. Test switch and it is okay.

Notice that if I disconnected the fuel solenoid from the wiring harness connector the ignition switch would get solenoid to click.

One observation while test at the ignition switch with harness connected was that the S terminal had a 11v reading when not not in the start position. Strange.

Note: All the readings on the DVMM are the same as battery static voltage. Didn't matter if I tested at the battery post or frame ground at the engine. This one just proves that even with a meter you can't find the problem without engaging your brain.

Well, since bg beat me to it...
I mean, come on, major clue that you have a ground and or battery/ cable issue.

All the other testing/whatever would seem to be a waste of time.
Then we find out about the ugly bat cable lugs! Big clue, right?

I'm not big on voltage drop testing, but seems as though...

As others have mentioned, a 12v test light is an invaluable tool. It's my first choice whenever faced with electrical problems, as most problems can be quickly and easily identified using it.

I keep a supply of cable lugs and new ss bolts and washers on hand for just such cases. As well as cable. All easily sourced on fleabay.

I use the heck out of this thing : https://www.waytekwire.com/item/462/CRIMPER-HAMMER-TOOL-8GA-4-0/?gclid=COOmp7mliNMCFQqFfgodkmUIQA

That is a neat reasonably priced hammer crimp tool. Never seen that one before. See it on flea bay for about $16.
I have the cable cutter that looks similar to that crimper that I use for cutting large copper and steel cable.
Thanks for the info link.

[Fulltilt]

That is a neat reasonably priced hammer crimp tool. Never seen that one before. See it on flea bay for about $16.
I have the cable cutter that looks similar to that crimper that I use for cutting large copper and steel cable.
Thanks for the info link.

Yeah, a buddy of mine gave it to me about 10 years or so ago, he had no idea what it was...neither did I ( but, hey, it was free) until I got to looking at it closer.

The only drawback to it is when the cable/s are still attached to the mower. Finding a solid surface to bang on can be a challenge. I usually use a section of 2x4 stood on end on the ground or on the transaxle/frame.

[KE4AVB]

Arkie,

Straighten out your previous post formatting. Can't use size twice side by side and if working within a quote you can't close formatting instructs outside it.