Ethanol Fuel Is Bad!!!

[Matt]

If i hadnt seen it with my own eyes, i wouldnt have believed what this fuel can do to fuel lines.

Here goes, 3 line trimmers, all echo, all had tanks full over winter with premium fuel and 2 stroke oil, got them out yesterday to do some first of the season trimming, not one will start. Start with the usual, check plug, see if its wet, primer bulb seems to pull fuel from tank, no start, not one of the 3 would fire.

Pour some fuel into carb and it fires up then dies when fuel runs out but will not suck from the tank. Took carb off the little gt225(cheapo), yellow goo everywhere inside, cleaned carb and put back on the engine, connect the lines, no start, no fuel. O.K, ive already looked into the tank and saw the primer line was in fuel, but i then go to pull out the 3 hole grommet from the tank and pull all 3 lines out, the rubber grommet was melted!!! the 2 black lines were completely melted, in pieces, the fuel filter actually was at the bottom of the tank, it had fallen off the melted line. I cant belive what im seeing, the primer line, which was yellow(tygon), why it was tygon and the other 2, which i do not know there material were completely melted.

This machine was 2 years old with very little use, i thought that manufacturers were usually parts that will work with todays ethanol, o-rings/gaskets/lines....etc??? My other 2 large commercial trimmers were in the same boat, the carbs were a mess but the lines were fine, they had all tygon and are older but solid units. Ethanol, which i try not to buy but apparently i cant seem to avoid, even with 2 stroke mix, it will eat all plastics and such over time, man this stuff is horrible. Now i have to go get some echo line kits(not to bad), but i gonna make sure there all tygon and non of that black whatever material stuff they have.

Just venting, wasted a few hours for what i think should not have happened!!! p.s. i think i might have seized one of my large trimmer engines, used carb cleaner as a primer(i know) i have the cylinder soaking, hope i havent fried the piston/cylinder.

[KE4AVB]

It is not always the gasoline with ethanol that can cause line problems. I have seen where fuel oil itself can deteriorate to lines. On top that the lines themselves can be to blame sometimes as well as low quality rubber parts.

A few years ago I put in a set lines in chainsaw, used it, and then stored it until the next weekend. Went to use it and couldn't start it. Check and the lines were a complete mess. Reline it using the very same line and used the very same fuel mix. I ended up with totally different results. I can not explain why this happen but I using a fuel oil that I was getting from Tram-law. I have being the Pro Mix with stabilizers ever since along with regular grade 10% ethanol fuel and I haven't had a several piece of personal equipment to fail.

Now I have seen some of the black plastic lines which is probably is what you ran into to be quite lousy just like line the grey line the Homelite's use. I even tried some that Stens True Blue fuel that was to be 100% ethanol resistant. It wasn't to harden, shrink or otherwise be damage by the ethanol. After only a month's time soaking in my ethanol based fuel mix it out discolored, harden and shrunken while the Tygon line was fine as was the Echo Nitrile rubber fuel line. The after market Echo fuel line is the only line that I haven't had any problems with but have seen several bad grommets.

From what I see it is a combination of things are happening all at once; enough to drive you batty. All you can do is to change one thing at a time until you eliminate the culprit. Once you find something that works stay with it.

[Fulltilt]

If i hadnt seen it with my own eyes, i wouldnt have believed what this fuel can do to fuel lines.


Now i have to go get some echo line kits(not to bad), but i gonna make sure there all tygon and non of that black whatever material stuff they have.

p.s. i think i might have seized one of my large trimmer engines, used carb cleaner as a primer(i know) i have the cylinder soaking, hope i havent fried the piston/cylinder.

Hey, nothing new there. That stuff's been messing up fuel lines/carbs for quite a while now.


I don't think you're going to find Echo kits with tygon. Speaking of which, just because the blurb says "tygon", and the stuff is yellow, be aware that a lot of that stuff ain't the real deal, and is susceptible to swelling, hardening, etc.
Look for the word Tygon branded on the tubing.


Pull the muffler off and inspect thru the exh. port. Shine a light thru the plug hole.


You may luck out and locate an ethanol free gas pump near you : http://pure-gas.org/

[creia]

Matt,
I share KE4AVB's feelings. That being said, it is possible that had you used a good fuel stabilzer in the fuel in these engines over the winter you would not have had these problems. I live in ethanol-laden California and my son and I have been adding "Sta-Bil" fuel stabilizer to our fuel in all of our small engines for over 9 yrs, and have had ZERO problems like you have experienced. Some of these engines had the same fuel in them for over 6 months, and still started and ran fine on the first or second pull. I am not being argumentive, just sharing OUR experiences which are obviously much different than YOURS...
Michael

[Fulltilt]

Actually, ethanol fuel is good !!
Why, without it, you wouldn't be able to drive your car or truck. Without it, you wouldn't be able to mow your lawn.
The days of non-corn gas are long gone, no?

Why, without ethanol fuel, some "techs" wouldn't be able to drive to Harbor Freight to buy the very tools that they use to repair lawnmowers, right?

You gotta love the stuff.

[KE4AVB]

Speaking of which, just because the blurb says "tygon", and the stuff is yellow, be aware that a lot of that stuff ain't the real deal, and is susceptible to swelling, hardening, etc.
Look for the word Tygon branded on the tubing.

Even Tygon F-4040A lines are affected by the chemical additives in today's fuels. These lines are also exposed to temperature extremes which can affect them. I have seen Tygon F-4040A line to be soften inside the tank and rock hard outside the tank on the same piece of equipment.

Currently there is no one cure all solution that I have found through the Echo's Nitrile rubber fuel lines are the ones that doing the best here.

On top that there are the Ether enriched fuels to deal with too. Where ethanol blends start at 10% blend, ether enriched (oxygenated fuel) starts at 15% plus the EPA is mandating fuels to now to contain 15% ethanol according to my local distributor so there goes the 10% ethanol warranties.

[NO0C]

I absolutely refuse to buy corn whiskey fuel for anything. Luckily, we are still able to buy 'real gasoline'.

Lower heat content = less power = lower fuel mileage. Enough difference that the cost/mile of operation is less with 'real gasoline'.

I have 2 pieces of Stihl equipment. 1. BG85 blower and 2. FS46 trimmer. Trimmer is on season 18 and blower on season 13 and never an engine issue with either of them. They have never been exposed to anything other than 'real gasoline' and Stihl 2-cycle oil. No winterizing done either, just hang them on the wall for the winter.

I'm not going to change now.

[NO0C]

Actually, ethanol fuel is good !!
Why, without it, you wouldn't be able to drive your car or truck. Without it, you wouldn't be able to mow your lawn.
The days of non-corn gas are long gone, no?

Not yet, thank goodness. Ethanol is vile.

Why, without ethanol fuel, some "techs" wouldn't be able to drive to Harbor Freight to buy the very tools that they use to repair lawnmowers, right?

Not yet, thank goodness. Ethanol is evil.

You gotta love the stuff.

Nope, never have, never will.

Just curious Fulltilt, what size hat do you wear? Do you have to special order them?

[Fulltilt]

Just curious Fulltilt, what size hat do you wear? Do you have to special order them?

Don't really know. But all of them are Harley caps from my slowly dwindling collection from all over 'Merica. Didn't order any of them. Just walked in the Harley shop and bought them. Easy, huh ?

The good part??? They're all adjustable...cool huh?

Why do you ask? Have you outgrown yours, perhaps?

[Fulltilt]

Speaking of which, just because the blurb says "tygon", and the stuff is yellow, be aware that a lot of that stuff ain't the real deal, and is susceptible to swelling, hardening, etc.
Look for the word Tygon branded on the tubing.

Even Tygon F-4040A lines are affected by the chemical additives in today's fuels. These lines are also exposed to temperature extremes which can affect them. I have seen Tygon F-4040A line to be soften inside the tank and rock hard outside the tank on the same piece of equipment.

Currently there is no one cure all solution that I have found through the Echo's Nitrile rubber fuel lines are the ones that doing the best here.

On top that there are the Ether enriched fuels to deal with too. Where ethanol blends start at 10% blend, ether enriched (oxygenated fuel) starts at 15% plus the EPA is mandating fuels to now to contain 15% ethanol according to my local distributor so there goes the 10% ethanol warranties.

I really haven't had any problems with true Tygon brand tubing...yet. We don't have the 15% or ether blends here. Got a roll of Tygon branded polyurethane blend tubing off fleabay, a couple years ago, now that stuff is indestructable, unfortunately, the bend capabilities suck.
Now that bootleg yellow crap...