Regulator/Rectifier 101

[38racing]

KE4AVB
Should I do that first test with the VR unplugged, and checking the volts from the red output and battery neg? Or on the other side of the plug? Or with it plugged together?

I will also run a temporary wire to the starter terminal from the VR output.
(There are two red wires coming out of the VR. Each has a fusible link, and show near zero ohms resistance. I wanted to be sure the fuses were not blown)
Could this part of the circuit be failing under load? Sure it could. And I NEVER would have thought about that.

I will let you know what I find after work on Thursday.

Thanks again.

I assume that you meant to say solenoid terminal and not the starter terminal and on the battery side post.

[Dale_W]

I need to figure out how to get the charging system wire diagram posted. You guys would understand it in a second.
I meant starter. I see KE4AVB did say solenoid.
I say starter because the two red (+) wires out of the VR both go to the + terminal of the starter. I think Polaris just decided to hook them up there. Of course, ALSO connected to that (+) starter post is the heavy cable that goes to the battery. That's how the charge gets to the battery. Polaris used the post as a place to make the connection.
I was thinking KE4AVB wanted me to bypass the two positive wires that make it to the battery in sort of a round about way.

[bgsengine]

I say starter because the two red (+) wires out of the VR both go to the + terminal of the starter. I think Polaris just decided to hook them up there. Of course, ALSO connected to that (+) starter post is the heavy cable that goes to the battery. That's how the charge gets to the battery. Polaris used the post as a place to make the connection.
.

That *IS* the solenoid it's just a part of the starter. you will notice the other big lug of the solenoid (or where one should be) would be a strap connecting to the starter itself.

Otherwise it would make no sense as it'd be cranking the starter constantly.

[KE4AVB]

I say starter because the two red (+) wires out of the VR both go to the + terminal of the starter. I think Polaris just decided to hook them up there. Of course, ALSO connected to that (+) starter post is the heavy cable that goes to the battery. That's how the charge gets to the battery. Polaris used the post as a place to make the connection.
.

That *IS* the solenoid it's just a part of the starter. you will notice the other big lug of the solenoid (or where one should be) would be a strap connecting to the starter itself.

Otherwise it would make no sense as it'd be cranking the starter constantly.

If I am reading the IPLs right [8 different model versions] and the service manual shows the same setup the starter is a one cable setup very much the same as most of our Briggs starters. The IPLs is showing a separate starter solenoid and if the starter is the one intended for this engine then the voltage regulator is wired wrong as there is no battery when the starter is not in use. Follow the positive cable off the battery and you should find the starter solenoid. This where the voltage regulator wires need to be connected to.

[bgsengine]

I say starter because the two red (+) wires out of the VR both go to the + terminal of the starter. I think Polaris just decided to hook them up there. Of course, ALSO connected to that (+) starter post is the heavy cable that goes to the battery. That's how the charge gets to the battery. Polaris used the post as a place to make the connection.
.

That *IS* the solenoid it's just a part of the starter. you will notice the other big lug of the solenoid (or where one should be) would be a strap connecting to the starter itself.

Otherwise it would make no sense as it'd be cranking the starter constantly.

If I am reading the IPLs right [8 different model versions] and the service manual shows the same setup the starter is a one cable setup very much the same as most of our Briggs starters. The IPLs is showing a separate starter solenoid and if the starter is the one intended for this engine then the voltage regulator is wired wrong as there is no battery when the starter is not in use. Follow the positive cable off the battery and you should find the starter solenoid. This where the voltage regulator wires need to be connected to.

Of course, ALSO connected to that (+) starter post is the heavy cable that goes to the battery.

Seems to me if there was no solenoid, the way he states it hooked up, the starter would be constantly running, no?

*edit to add* - if I remember right they have the separate solenoid mounted right on the starter, which is likely where his confusion lies in terminology - solenoid may be available separately but may be mounted on the starter (then again some Polaris I have seen had the solenoid integrated with starter like some Kawasaki and kohler engines - automotive style A La GM)

[Dale_W]

I better not say anything until I get home and look at the manual. (why would I bring it to work?) Just be assured I am reading your posts and soaking it all in.

We got a wee bit off topic because of my confusion in terminology (BGS was right on there). Of course there is a solenoid, I am thinking built into the starter housing.
But lets not trust my memory. I just looked at a Polaris Part Warehouse webpage.....of course it shows a solenoid separate from the starter.....

Now that I know where to connect the temporary wire, I can do some testing after work and let you guys know what I find.

If I can find my electronic version of the manual, I will see if I can post the diagram.

As always, thank you very much for time and sharing of your knowledge.

[Dale_W]

Update:
At the very beginning of this process, my ancient analog meter showed 13 volts across the new battery, engine revving or not. (it was probably 12.8 volts)
The first check was the stator. There were tests for engine off, and engine running. It passed all tests.
My next guess was voltage regulator, BUT, there could be issues preventing the VR from getting volts down to the battery.
KE4AVB and BGSENGINE gave me a lot of good ideas to check for in the wiring.

The first test I did was back probing the connector right at the VR. 4 volts dc idle, 10 volts dc revving.
Back probing was necessary because an unplugged VR gave very very low voltage.
I know this is not really a conclusive test! Right? (but it was enough for me to order a new VR)
Perhaps 1) verifying a good ground and 2) running a jumper for the two red wires directly to battery would have been a good idea? And then do the back probe test?

KE4AVB, why did you want me to connect the jumper to the solenoid post instead of directly to the battery + terminal?

I was going to do a little more testing last night after work, but I figured the fastest test was to plug in the new VR.

Sure enough, my meter shows just about 14.5 volts with engine revving. So maybe that means really 14.2 or 14.3?

There are a lot of places where something could go wrong to prevent a charge from happening. Yikes how about the connection that checks with an ohmmeter, but fails under load?

That is may main follow up question for the pros now: With good ground, and good connection to battery, is back probing the VR a conclusive test that the VR is good or bad?

Thanks again for your help.

Dale

Side note, in my other post on multi-meter recommendations, somebody told me to buy new, not used. Yeah, solid advice. This second guessing my meter was for the birds.

[KE4AVB]

KE4AVB, why did you want me to connect the jumper to the solenoid post instead of directly to the battery + terminal?

There are a lot of places where something could go wrong to prevent a charge from happening. Yikes how about the connection that checks with an ohmmeter, but fails under load?

Kinda answered the question yourself. I was wanting to verify that fuse links and those crimp connectors were good and not just giving off a false reading on he ohms check. I done had this happen twice this year already. The Prairie I am currently working on had one connect that just barely making connect and then it was dropping out under load. Only one strand was actually connected of a multiple strand wire.

Actually You could connect directly to battery but I figured you had good connections to the solenoid since you were able to start the ATV.

Any way glad you found the problem. But it is still strange that you were getting only a 10V reading when it should have been same the battery voltage if the regulator was out since basically it is a direct connection other than intermediate connections.