Briggs 5HP crank with "slide on" timing gear?

[creia]

I am considering making this purchase:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/145805368140
The seller is representing it as a Briggs Model 130202 crank that "has a slide on timing gear". Are these interchangeable with cranks with a fixed (or possibly milled/manufactured in place?) timing gear? In the photos you can see that it even has (fixed?) crank key to align with the slot in the timing gear. Out of all the Briggs 5HP 130202 engines I have worked on over the years, I do not ever remember seeing one with this "slide on" gear, and there was never a visible crank gear keyway or key for the crank gear. Is it a press fit or do they just (easily) slide on? It will be used on a Briggs 130202 engine that originally came with a crank with the "fixed" (non slide on) crank gear. Am I heading into possible problems?
Thanks for the education in advance...
Michael

[KE4AVB]

The best I can tell that is the 494071 crankshaft which does have two different replacement timing gears. I don't have a line drawing showing the top end of 494071 crankshaft.

261696 GEAR-TIMING (Plain Bearing)

262060 GEAR-TIMING (Ball Bearing)

This was the replacement crankshaft for 261118,261142, 261165, and 397096 crankshafts.

As to if pressed on or slip fit that I don't know.

[creia]

Thanks KE4AVB.
Basically, what I an asking is this crank (with the "slide-on" crank gear) compatible to swap for the crank on my engine with the "Non- slide-on" (fixed) crank gear? The eBay listing "claims" that it is for a Briggs Model 130202 (who knows? ) which is the same as my 130202 which is a plain bearing.
** Late Edit- I went ahead and purchased it as the seller accepted my offer and you so rarely see these come up for auction.
Michael

[KE4AVB]

From what I see you only have the correct gear for your engine's setup. It look they design the crankshaft so they would need two different crankshafts. Just made it where all you had to do was select the correct timing gear.

You could download the 130000 horizontal series crankshaft drawings to compare specs when you get the crankshaft.

[bgsengine]

Keyed timing gears are a pretty snug fit , but as noted they can be replaced - Main difference between the 2 timing gears (plain vs ball bearing) is how the timing marks are laid out - with ball bearing pressed on, you would not see the "default" timing marks so you'd need alternatives to get it timed. (Usually that was solved by cutting one of the gear teeth with the timing mark to a slight bevel in lieu of the punch dot) However either timing gear plus the crank should work in replacement of the fixed (cast/forged) gear cranks. My memory may be fuzzy, but it is actually covered in the service manual (these days, it'd be the Antique Engines manual - but to an Antique like me, they "seem" modern enough!) So, if you have a "ball bearing" timing gear , it (I believe) should work find in a plain bearing block, you'd just note one of the timing gear teeth may have a bevel to it rather than the punched dot or scribed line for a timing mark. However if putting a "plain bearing" crank into a ball bearing block, you may need to locate your timing tooth and modify it to file a bevel or some such on the appropriate tooth in order to get timing marks lined up (Except in the case of the ball bearing ones that have bearing capture screws to keep bearing in the side cover on removal - the nuts are accessible from the outside to aid in removal of the side cover when necessary - but they have been known to get loose and fall into the engine with disastrous results)

As I said -this is all from memory which may be fuzzy (and/or mixed up with Tecumseh / Kohler/ Clinton which I have seen similar setups on) so I'd still recommend the official briggs engine manual and review all about the crankshafts section. However, 130200 series , you'd pretty much be getting the same crank (only difference being the PTO end, AFAIK) Thing to watch for also may be the length of the flywheel end (There was an older style where you'd have to nip about 3/8 inch off the end so it fits newer style starter clutch, because the older style clutch, the crank poked through the end of the square drive - but the newer style crank worked for them equally well.. up until they made them to fit the "starter cup" type starters later on after production of the ball clutch style recoils went the way of the dinosaur.

[creia]

Gentlemen,
Thank you both for the replies.
Based on your replies, it "looks" like I'll be OK with this crank fitting my engine regardless of the crank gear type. Brian, you are 100% correct (no surprise!) about the timing marks and you are not as much as an "antique" (mentally) as you think you are - LOL!! On the crank I purchased, if the crank gear ends up being the ball bearing type, the Briggs Repair manual states that there is no timing mark on the crank gear and, instead, to look for the timing mark ("dimple") on the front face of the crank counterweight that will line up with the cam gear mark. They even have a nice graphic in the manual showing where it will be.
Michael

[bgsengine]

Gentlemen,
Thank you both for the replies.
Based on your replies, it "looks" like I'll be OK with this crank fitting my engine regardless of the crank gear type. Brian, you are 100% correct (no surprise!) about the timing marks and you are not as much as an "antique" (mentally) as you think you are - LOL!! On the crank I purchased, if the crank gear ends up being the ball bearing type, the Briggs Repair manual states that there is no timing mark on the crank gear and, instead, to look for the timing mark ("dimple") on the front face of the crank counterweight that will line up with the cam gear mark. They even have a nice graphic in the manual showing where it will be.
Michael

Also, for those without the knowledge and practical experience of things, most single cylinder 4-stroke engines can be timed without any timing marks at all - It'll be all about the valve overlap - you'd have to time them with valves removed or not under spring tension, and you'd need to be able to get the crank to exactly TDC (any stroke as long as it is precisely TDC) and then you'd position the cam so that it is opening both valves at the same time (I.E. the valve overlap - when exhaust is just starting to close, and the intake will be just opening) A tooth off in any direction typically would cause one valve to be full open and the other full closed, so... But that'd be one way to time the engine without benefit of timing marks on the gears (or crank) and also a good way to verify that it is actually in time before closing up the crankcase. (watching valve overlap while turning crank with piston ,etc all installed) It'd be relatively easy for an experienced builder to spot, not so easy for a newbie... But still do-able. (and usually at the same point, if flywheel is installed, the flywheel magnet poles will line up with the coil armature legs pretty much, or slightly past in direction of rotation - remember it'd be a few degrees of rotation after triggering spark...)

[creia]

Brian,
Thanks for posting this! In the event that the crank I purchased does not have any timing marks whatsoever (either on the crank gear or the crank counterweight) I'll be using that technique you explained so clearly to set correct timing...
Michael

[KE4AVB]

Well this should help...

262060 Timing Gear


261696 Timing Gear

[creia]

Thanks KE4AVB!
Hopefully, the crank I bought has the timing mark dimple visible like one of the ones you posted...
Michael